Even When Your Cell Phone's Off, the Feds Are Listening

blog · 02-28-2007, 08:10 PM

Here’s a happy feature story from Shep: The FBI can listen to your conversations even if you’re not on the phone and your mobile is turned off. How? There are little GPS locater devices in all modern cell phones. You can supposedly disable them, but you really can’t. So, your phone’s turned off and you’re talking to somebody about precious freedoms or whatever and the Feds need to hear this for your prosecution before a military tribunal in Syria, so they use the GPS locater thing to activate the microphone.
True, or just some Fear Propaganda put out on Fox News to keep cranky conservatives in line?

btaryag · 02-28-2007, 08:14 PM

Doesn't make sense - I don't believe it. When the phone is off the battery does not power the GPS module.

solag · 02-28-2007, 08:54 PM

I don't believe it

blog · 02-28-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaryag

Doesn't make sense - I don't believe it. When the phone is off the battery does not power the GPS module.

i think they mean that when your not actually making a call.

i think its highly possible. the government hides so much from us. It would be quite easy to connect to someones phone if they arent using it.

Earl Camembert · 02-28-2007, 10:14 PM

I have heard that they can listen in on a computer microphone when you are not aware.

blog · 02-28-2007, 10:34 PM

i believe that too. they are all listening...all the time...

ReKull · 02-28-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tytyguy

i believe that too. they are all listening...all the time...

Conspiracy Theory

Plot Outline:
J.F. is a man who sees conspiracies everywhere. But if you keep doing that long enough, sooner or later you're going to get one right

blog · 02-28-2007, 11:54 PM

soo true so true.

NotSmellyPrepaid · 03-01-2007, 04:19 AM

I can't link it right off-hand, but yes, it's true! (I LIED: Here it is: FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool | CNET News.com ). Also, this article explains the basic principles behind GPS tracking: When a Cell Phone Is More than a Phone: Protecting Your Privacy in the Age of the Super-Phone I have also read other in-depth articles about it. The point being here that the GPS module is being powered by the battery even when the phone is turned off. Much like the phone's ability to remember what time it is when you power it back on. The solution to this, if you're trying to hide something, whether from the Feds or simply the obnoxious private detective following you trying to dig up dirt (yes, it has happened to me), is to REMOVE the battery. This removes the power source for the GPS tracking ability, as well as removes the power source for the Feds' apparent ability to remotely turn on your microphone.

Second solution for the truly paranoid, AFTER removing the battery, is to place the phone inside a Faraday cage device to prevent it from sending out signals in case there is a hidden auxiliary battery specifically for the GPS (I've heard tales about this second battery theory, but haven't been able to confirm them). The hidden auxiliary battery theory is credible. Consider how your computer remembers the time even after it has been unplugged and plugged in again (whereas your cell phone probably doesn't after the battery has been removed and replaced).

A "Faraday cage" (go look it up yourself, lol!) can be made from something as simple as the mylar bag (foil-lined) that chips come in. Insert phone to bottom of rinsed-out clean bag, roll bag around phone several times, and voila! El-Faraday-Cage-Bag! Then stick the rolled up bag inside a sunglasses drawstring pouch and carry on with your surreptitious travels, LOL! Many thanks to Clarice for helping work out the "bugs" in this experiment (sorry - that pun was definitely intended.... LOL).

EDIT: The Faraday Bag-O-Chips will work even with the battery left in as far as not allowing the phone to ring. There's no real way for me to test the theory about GPS tracking-ability with this device because I don't own a GPS locator or have a subscription to one of the family-tracking programs.

ReKull · 03-01-2007, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotSmellyPrepaid

I can't link it right off-hand, but yes, it's true! (I LIED: Here it is: FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool | CNET News.com ). Also, this article explains the basic principles behind GPS tracking: When a Cell Phone Is More than a Phone: Protecting Your Privacy in the Age of the Super-Phone ...

A MUST read...
Thanks!

btaryag · 03-01-2007, 06:32 AM

Read the Cnet article. It contains contradictions as to whether it works when the phone is powered off, or just not being used. If either of them is true it is the latter.

However, it also quotes the opinion of a PI that the only way to do it is to plant a physical bug in the phone. It should be noted that in the first affidavit linked in the article it says "through a listening device placed in the cellular telephone...." (emphasis added)

The judgement linked in the article says "roving bugs, installed in cellular telephones". Later on when the crim started cooperating with the gov, they gov "removed the listening device in his cellular telephone". This implies that there was indeed a physical bug.

If the PI is correct - and so it seems from the very documents Cnet uses to support it's case, it would easily explain how this can be used even if the phone is off. Being that is was a physically implanted device, it could easily be connected to the battery leads (not in the actual battery compartment) and would function even if the phone is powered off.

I feel strongly that Cnet is wrong on this.

NotSmellyPrepaid · 03-01-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaryag

Read the Cnet article. It contains contradictions as to whether it works when the phone is powered off, or just not being used. If either of them is true it is the latter.

However, it also quotes the opinion of a PI that the only way to do it is to plant a physical bug in the phone. It should be noted that in the first affidavit linked in the article it says "through a listening device placed in the cellular telephone...." (emphasis added)

The judgement linked in the article says "roving bugs, installed in cellular telephones". Later on when the crim started cooperating with the gov, they gov "removed the listening device in his cellular telephone". This implies that there was indeed a physical bug.

If the PI is correct - and so it seems from the very documents Cnet uses to support it's case, it would easily explain how this can be used even if the phone is off. Being that is was a physically implanted device, it could easily be connected to the battery leads (not in the actual battery compartment) and would function even if the phone is powered off.

I feel strongly that Cnet is wrong on this.

I have to respectfully disagree. I don't have the links handy to back this up nor the time to look them up right this minute (I will try later and post if I find them), but other places I read about this made reference to the cellular companies cooperating with the Feds to locate and turn on the microphone *remotely*, meaning there was NO PHYSICAL CONTACT with the phone by the Feds or the phone company. It is entirely possible that the phone was turned on when this happened, but given the nature of technology today, it seems plausible (to me anyway, lol) that the cellular companies would also have the ability to turn the phone remotely if the battery was installed.

NotSmellyPrepaid · 03-01-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotSmellyPrepaid

I have to respectfully disagree. I don't have the links handy to back this up nor the time to look them up right this minute (I will try later and post if I find them), but other places I read about this made reference to the cellular companies cooperating with the Feds to locate and turn on the microphone *remotely*, meaning there was NO PHYSICAL CONTACT with the phone by the Feds or the phone company. It is entirely possible that the phone was turned on when this happened, but given the nature of technology today, it seems plausible (to me anyway, lol) that the cellular companies would also have the ability to turn the phone remotely if the battery was installed.

Cell phone tracking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -

Newer phones may have built-in GPS receivers which could be used in a similar fashion, but with much higher accuracy.
Some newer phones and technology may also allow the tracking of the phone even when turned off. Also, phones can have secondary batteries installed to allow tracking even if the battery is removed.

[cPanel] Privacy

Privacy is a great concern. The Electronic Frontier Foundation is tracking some cases, including USA v. Pen Register, regarding government tracking of an individuals such as paedophiles & often political activists.The FBI appears to have begun using a novel form of electronic surveillance in criminal investigations: remotely activating a mobile phone’s microphone and using it to eavesdrop on nearby conversations. The technique is called a “roving bug,” and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice. A mobile sitting on the desk of a politician or businessman can act as a powerful, undetectable bug.

Travel by GPS Information on Tracking People with Cell Phones

chokaay · 03-01-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotSmellyPrepaid

The solution to this, if you're trying to hide something, whether from the Feds or simply the obnoxious private detective following you trying to dig up dirt (yes, it has happened to me), is to REMOVE the battery. This removes the power source for the GPS tracking ability, as well as removes the power source for the Feds' apparent ability to remotely turn on your microphone.

Second solution for the truly paranoid, AFTER removing the battery, is to place the phone inside a Faraday cage device to prevent it from sending out signals in case there is a hidden auxiliary battery specifically for the GPS (I've heard tales about this second battery theory, but haven't been able to confirm them). The hidden auxiliary battery theory is credible. Consider how your computer remembers the time even after it has been unplugged and plugged in again (whereas your cell phone probably doesn't after the battery has been removed and replaced).

Another "solution" that MAY be "safer" is to buy/switch prepaid cell phones every day. For extra protection, always use cash when purchasing your prepaids, dispose of old cell phones/SIMS after you're done with them, use different non-GPS carriers/networks/phone numbers each time, and switch the vendor you purchase from each time. If bugging/location is extremely likely, do NOT activate or insert the battery into your phone until right before you need to use it, and switch phones more often (hourly if necessary). :eyebrow:

NotSmellyPrepaid · 03-01-2007, 10:38 AM