Paranoia Runs Deep... The Official Paranoid Thread

[NotSmellyPrepaid]

MobilePrincess said she was going to start this, but I haven't seen it yet, so here goes:

To what degree do you worry about either government or the private sector (insurance companies, corporations, employers, etc) "spying" on your personal habits through databases, computer records, covert surveillance, etc.? What steps have you taken or considered taking to thwart information-gathering about yourself?

I'll go first:

I think this is a huge problem because once the information is in a database, you have personally lost control of who obtains it. Now you may say it doesn't matter, I have nothing to hide, and that may very well be true. But.... Just because you personally have nothing to hide doesn't mean your neighbors or relatives also have pristine backgrounds. It doesn't mean that you want any old insurance company misinterpreting your past history for their own fiscal gain and your loss. It doesn't mean you want that guy you dated once or twice to be able to find you after you discover too late that he's an obsessive stalker.

So what do you do about it?

Use a PO box? Have an unlisted number? Use an anonymous prepaid phone? All of the above? None of the above? All of that plus what?

[arigold]

Personally this is an argument that goes far beyond the scope of anything we can possibly understand and/or fathom. While we'd like to sit there and criticize every step the government is taking to monitor society and enlarge the big brother image we just can't imagine why or how.

There are certain things I just don't want to know. I go through my days never realizing that the things that happen in a hollywood action click really happens. We immerse ourselves in daily activities and use our given liberty to criticize, fantasize, dream never realizing what it cost/costs to achieve those dreams.

Am I an advocate of giving up a little liberty for a chance at a little more security? Not even in the slightest. Sometimes I wonder if people ever stop to think about why the world around them requires such a thing. Anyone who thinks that those things aren't necessary is fooling themselves. However, necessity doesn't dictate a governments rights to spy on their people. Sometimes though and I say this without having any proof but history to support it, we have to give up a little freedom to earn a little more liberty.

[NotSmellyPrepaid]

Truthfully, I'm not nearly as bothered by the "government" knowing who and where I am as I'm bothered by the private sector having the same information. That probably falls into the category of 'I'm not personally doing anything wrong, therefore I have nothing to hide from the government', but I've been much more affected by the private sector, so I DO care what the private sector has access to. I hope that made sense... I don't question "why" the govt needs to know so much - I do question why anybody else needs access to anything more than I choose to disclose.

[arigold]

Originally Posted by NotSmellyPrepaid

Truthfully, I'm not nearly as bothered by the "government" knowing who and where I am as I'm bothered by the private sector having the same information. That probably falls into the category of 'I'm not personally doing anything wrong, therefore I have nothing to hide from the government', but I've been much more affected by the private sector, so I DO care what the private sector has access to. I hope that made sense... I don't question "why" the govt needs to know so much - I do question why anybody else needs access to anything more than I choose to disclose.

Theres no doubt that this is an amazing argument justified and aided by a post Sept 11 world. That being said, we aren't privy to the information required to decide whether or not giving up a little liberty for a little security is really necessary. This administration has installed into our minds that its a sacrifice we must make and while nobody really complains about the long lines at security anymore or taking off their shoes, it annoys us all. Does that mean we should stop it? Doesn't it make you feel safer. On the one hand we feel just a tad bit better when the government talks tough and says its monitoring our communication. Then again the NSA has been doing that for YEARS. A few key words in a paragraph and your conversation is flagged, thats a hollywood movie favorite. Yet we fail to realize just how necessary it is, we don't know how many terrorists have been stopped due to these measures. We never will and we are better off not knowing. Everybody is comfortable thinking about it until they realize it might be done to them. Theres no easy answer and thats the worst part about it.

[NotSmellyPrepaid]

Knock knock knock: "Hello, ma'am, sir, we're from the gubmint, and we're here to help you!" LOL!

[MobilePrincess]

The only thing I worry about is what kind of life my kids will have in todays increasingly violent society if something ever happened to my husband or I before they have a chance to grow up. Everything else is second to none.

[BabaBooey]

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

So where do we draw the line?

[arigold]

Originally Posted by BabaBooey

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

So where do we draw the line?

While Ben Franklin is quoted all too often lately, he also wrote said statement at a time when the biggest threat were armed militias in red jackets marching to the step of a drummer.

The threat has changed, so should our ability to handle that threat.

Can a line be drawn when dealing with an enemy who knows no borders, recognizes no laws and respects nothing? While we've been spoon fed that line almost to the point of ignorance now, there is still an enemy out there. We are so tied up in la la land with Iraq that this country yet again has forgotten what brought us there in the first place. Whether or not you agree/disagree if we should be there, something brought us there and that we can't disagree on.

[BabaBooey]

Originally Posted by arigold

The threat has changed, so should our ability to handle that threat.

And that quote has been used even more often in history - the 'now it's different than before' attitude that requires we lose personal freedom.

It was used against Vietnam protesters, by McCarthy in the 50s, when interning the Japanese in WW2, when silencing critics in WWI, when suspending habeas corpus in the civil war, etc.

Don't forget foreign nations that have followed the same path (fascist countries, etc).

[arigold]

Originally Posted by BabaBooey

And that quote has been used even more often in history - the 'now it's different than before' attitude that requires we lose personal freedom.

It was used against Vietnam protesters, by McCarthy in the 50s, when interning the Japanese in WW2, when silencing critics in WWI, when suspending habeas corpus in the civil war, etc.

Don't forget foreign nations that have followed the same path (fascist countries, etc).

Only stating it with the intention that the ability to draw the line has never been more blurred. Those other threats while certainly immeasurable threats at the time still had more clairvoyance than today. The enemy was still on the other side of a battlefield wearing uniforms, we knew who they were. Today, they walk among us. Modern technology as well the inability to easily determine who is and who is not a threat makes this question of how long will we be tolerant and of what so much more difficult.

[Taurus SS]

Originally Posted by NotSmellyPrepaid

So what do you do about it?

Use a PO box? Have an unlisted number? Use an anonymous prepaid phone? All of the above? None of the above? All of that plus what?

Once you use your SSN, it's too late.
You can use a PO Box, have an unlisted number etc..,but all it takes is an SSN to track you and if the government wants to, they can pull it up and see where it's been used.

For me, the day I lose my anonymity is when I turn in a completed and signed SF 86. Who knows, I may have already lost it when I allowed my name to be used as a reference for the SF 86 (very likely) that my friend turned in to his employer.

[NotSmellyPrepaid]

Originally Posted by Taurus SS

Once you use your SSN, it's too late.
You can use a PO Box, have an unlisted number etc..,but all it takes is an SSN to track you and if the government wants to, they can pull it up and see where it's been used.

For me, the day I lose my anonymity is when I turn in a completed and signed SF 86. Who knows, I may have already lost it when I allowed my name to be used as a reference for the SF 86 (very likely) that my friend turned in to his employer.

Are you referring to using an SS number for employment or taxes? Or using an SS for any of the vast "unapproved" purposes like credit applications, school entrance forms, etc.? And what's an SF 86?

[ClariceLecter666]

Originally Posted by NotSmellyPrepaid

Use an anonymous prepaid phone? All of the above? None of the above? All of that plus what?

I thought this could be a subtopic in the paranoia thread. I was thinking of this topic overnight, the paranoia aspect. And remembered our fun topic on the prepaid Yahoo group, the Faraday cage experiments with Mylar bags, cookie tins, metal lined eyeglass cases, thoughts of using a microwave oven in the trunk of your car.

All brought about because one person mentioned just turning off his phone when he went somewhere he did not want known, and NotSmelly said no, you have to remove the battery, and someone else posted an article stating that some cell phones have a secondary non-removable battery, so we thought up different Faraday cage options for the phone, I did some experiments, and found that a cylindrical steel cookie tin worked great, I left the phone turned on, and of course the battery was still in it, and the ringer volume was turned all the way up, and I sent myself several text messages using different configurations of Faraday cage type things. I also found that using a Mylar Doritos bag worked great at stopping the signal from reaching the phone, thus not allowing the GPS to work, keeping my location from the cell phone company, and anyone else. These experiments all worked with the battery still in the phone, and the phone left turned on. I have not tried using a microwave oven, but according to an article about Faraday cages, one would work great at keeping the signal from the phone.

p.s. You don't mind me shortening your screen name to NotSmelly, do you?

[NotSmellyPrepaid]

LOL! Of course I don't mind being NotSmelly. I draw the line at shortening to SmellyPrepaid... ;-)

[Taurus SS]

Originally Posted by NotSmellyPrepaid

Are you referring to using an SS number for employment or taxes? Or using an SS for any of the vast "unapproved" purposes like credit applications, school entrance forms, etc.? And what's an SF 86?

SSN for anything.

SF 86.
Standard Form 86 "Questionnaire for National Security Positions".
Certain private and government institutions need to give you access to certain pieces of privileged information so you can do your job. For these positions the background check starts here and maybe more depending who's the employer and what you will be doing.